Ep. 22: H2 Sports Marketing CEO Heiner Hilbert on Building Professional Athletes Brands Through Human Connection
In this episode, Darren Reinke Chats with Heiner Hilbert, CEO of H2 Sports Marketing. Heiner discusses the lessons he learned working with iconic sports stars such as Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, and Michael Jordan, the factors that led him to launch his own sports marketing agency, as well as how he uses human connection to build trust with clients and develop their long term brands.
H2 Sports Marketing is a sports marketing agency that works with athletes in the NFL, NBA, and MLB to develop long lasting and authentic brands.
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SHOW NOTES
How Heiner was Introduced to Professional Sports [1:04]
The Key Differences Between a Marketing Agent and a Contract Agent [4:07]
The Differentiating Mindset Heiner Adopted to Break Into the Sports Industry [6:38]
How Heiner Prepared for Critical Moments with Key Sports Stars [13:30]
Why Heiner Left Working With Iconic Athletes to Start His Own Sports Marketing Agency [17:23]
How Heiner Uses Human Connection to Build Trust With New and Existing Clients [24:15]
The Key Elements Heiner Uses to Build an Athlete’s Long Term Brand [30:40]
How Heiner Advises Clients Through Brand Mistakes [34:57]
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PODCAST TRANSCRIPT
Darren Reinke: Welcome to The Savage Leader Podcast, where I interview leaders from all walks of life so that you can walk away with tips to apply to your life and your career. But this isn't your traditional leadership podcast because I believe that leadership tips come from successful entrepreneurs and business executives, of course. Still, they also come from unexpected places, like Navy SEALs, successful professional athletes, sports coaches, musicians, entertainers, and more. So let's dive right into today's episode; my hope is you walk away with something tangible that you can apply immediately to your life in your career. Today's guests on the savage leader podcast is Heiner Hilbert. Heiner is the president and CEO of h2 sports marketing, and agency focused on marketing professional athletes. Heiner, thanks for coming on today.
Heiner Hilbert: Hey, how are you Darren? I'm good.
Darren Reinke: I'm good. So take me back a little bit. So I know you're a big, obviously big into sports and grew up in the northern part of San Francisco Bay area. So how did you get involved in sports in the first place?
How Heiner was Introduced to Professional Sports [1:04]
Heiner Hilbert: In the professional aspect, I think it started with kind of early on, I obviously grew up playing sports. I grew up in the city on Phelan, Ashbury actually, in the panhandle, and grew up playing sports, baseball, you know, and basketball and football and just running around my friends Golden Gate Park, and right across the street. So we would just play all day there. And as we moved around different parts of Northern California, that was kind of how I made friends and how we all grew up, I feel like playing sports going to games. And so I knew pretty early on, when my dad was like, start thinking about what you want to do for your life when I was like, you know, a kid, seventh eighth grade. And I started thinking, I was like, you know, I love sports, I'd love to do something in sports, I knew I wasn't going to be a professional athlete, you know, that was the dream, but that we knew that realistically wasn't going to happen. But that there's something involved in sports, because it's one of my passions. And so, you know, my dad, just being a seventh eighth grader started popping up things of different things in sports that you can do different, you know, jobs, different careers, things like that, you know, little by little going through high school kind of thinking that way. And kind of being able to intern at some agencies at first, the first thought is, I want to be an agent, you can be an agent, right? And looking into that, and what that entails sports law, studying sports law, and I thought, that's what I wanted to do. Long story short, I ended up getting an internship at a firm or agency that had kind of both, they had agents, and they had marketing reps, and they had all kinds of stuff. So I got to see everybody kind of what they do what their lane was, I realized that I enjoyed more the marketing side of athlete representation, just because with an agent, their whole goal, obviously, is to get the player, you know, you recruit the player, you sign the player, and then you're trying to get him drafted, get his contract with the team settled. And then that's kind of it at that point, for the most part, you have to move on to the next because you you try to get the next player could do the same thing. And you kind of have to build that way as to why I liked the more personalization a little bit, and the people aspect of marketing side, because you're building a brand, you're kind of growing with them. I thought, you know, that's kind of cool. He represents these guys for, you know, maybe aspirations that they have allowed, the guy wants a clothing line, outside of the field, you know, agents focus on the field, and the marketing reps are kind of maximizing their value and potential outside of football. So there's a lot of other avenues for that you usually get to know the player better, you'll know their families or where they come from things like that. So I enjoyed that I that side of it. And I thought, You know what, I think I'll be better at this. And I kind of focus on that.
Darren Reinke: Yeah, it's pretty special, just by the way, just that your dad was supportive of your passion and helping you take that passion for sports into a career. I mean, I'm lucky to have parents like that as well. I think sometimes parents just push you into something he says it's you can make a secure living, you know, allow you to make a lot of money or get a lot of notoriety or whatnot. So like, that's pretty special that your pops was able to do that. But talk to me about a little bit about some of those differences between a marketing agent what you think of more like a kind of it's called a contract agent. I mean, obviously, people think about ballers and before that Jerry Maguire and think about helping them close contracts and so forth. But tell me a little bit more. He talked about the long term nature, the deeper relationship, like what else is different between those two different kinds of Asians, they work together.
The Key Differences Between a Marketing Agent and a Contract Agent [4:07]
Heiner Hilbert: So I work what I do for the clients that I have, and then also for if it's done, right, you work together. So you work together as far as you let the agent know, hey, we are looking for a shoe deal. So So in essence, the marketing rep will deal with the Nikes, the under armors, image rights, lots of image rights stuff, licensing memorabilia, things like that. That is a different lane that if you don't have somebody that specifically knows that you're not maximizing your earning potential. I explained that some types of clients as well I'll say, you know, when I'm introducing myself and letting them know the differences, and their agent can be there. Or they they know already, usually the agent sometimes will say, hey, we'd like you to come on board and help us with this marketing marketing this athlete, I'll say, it's kind of like you could have a carpenter paint your house. But the painter is going to know everything that entails because he that's all he does. He paint houses, and the carpenter does carpentry. And so the best way to get the best results on your house, which is your career, I use it as an analogy for your career is you have somebody that's doing all the carpentry work. And that's all they do, because they've got that down, which you know, could be his agent to deal with the teams. They know how to maximize that get him the best contract possible. And then I know marketing memorabilia licensing image rights. I know how to work that, because that's basically what I've done. So yeah, a lot of that those are the main main differences. Some agencies, some agents will have marketing reps on staff like myself, so they'll say, Oh, you signed with us, you've got everything all in one. Back in the day, the ancients used to come up with the like, they used to just do the marketing also, like some genius stuff where, you know, like Michael Jordan, David Falk was the one that came up, signed, Michael Jordan did his both contract, but also came up with the shoe deal approach. Nike, well approached all these companies and said, Hey, he should have his own shoe. At the time, it wasn't something that was being done. And he kind had to come up with that. So he was doing the athlete contract, and then coming up with marketing, and PR stuff, he basically had to do it all, which is genius. I mean, it's a lot of work, but it's great.
The Differentiating Mindset Heiner Adopted to Break Into the Sports Industry [6:38]
Darren Reinke: I love this even rewind a little bit more. Because obviously you talk about these guys making their dreams come true. And they're successful as being professional athletes, but like yourself, I think it's interesting, because you broke into a notoriously challenging business to get into whether it's sports or entertainment. So what was that like for you? How did you break into like, what was that mindset to be able to get into some that really is tough for most people?
Heiner Hilbert: Yeah, I was actually lucky because it kind of, you'd say it's serendipity, or I don't know, but it's it now that I look back at it. The things that happen, the way that they happen, kind of put me right on the path for I always wanted it and was working towards it. But I think the timing happened at the right time, when I was prepared. Opportunity meets preparation literally happened for me, I was trying to get a job with the upper deck company, the old trading card company. So I went to college in San Diego and I lived there. And that was the the goal because it was such a while when I was a card collector growing up. But also I knew all of the things that they did and had there that was international stuff, right where it was there was marketing, there was all kinds of stuff for trading cards, memorabilia, image rights, licensing, pretty much everything in my lane. And the housing crisis happened. So I couldn't get a job that I applied a billion times never got a call. And so I just went about, you know, being a just out of college kid just working because you have to pay bills, right? Even though you're 2324, you got to figure out your life. So I'm working other jobs, I ended up doing insurance, I ended up doing all kinds of other stuff, trying to get in the Upper Deck, the housing crisis happens, they have to lay off a bunch of people, when things start to pick up again, they start hiring again. And lucky, just out of pure luck. A friend of mine that I had met in San Diego that was from from the Bay Area. So we have that link as for Bay Area kids, his landlord worked at Upper Deck. He's like, Oh, the guy pay the rent to rent one of his apartments is worth that upper deck. And he's saying they're hiring and I and he said, Give me your resume. I'll just give it to him. When I go drop off rent and see, you know, we'll see what he said what happens. And literally, that's how my resume got to my boss's desk, who was VP and legal counsel at Upper Deck. I had the first set of upper deck cards, I haven't still and I made a color copy on the cover page and kind of fan them out, put them on there. And then my resume was in there. And later on my boss tells me once I got hired, he said, Yeah, I had a stack of resumes, but I saw like a little something there. Picture or color something brought my attention. I think it's I don't know, upper deck like nice old card and pulls it out. And it was my resume, looked at it and I got the interview and then ended up getting the job. So it's kind of a lot of little things that you're like, had that not happened had that my friend that I met there by random coincidence through an ex girlfriend been how is the landlord work there and the landlord tells him yeah, we're looking for people and he's like, Oh, wait, I have a friend who's been trying to get in there forever. So that's how it started. I got hired an upper deck to work in the licensing and you know, contract department which basically was we did the contracts between upper deck and the athletes. And my boss was VP and legal counsel and he was great. He was just a great person. Showed me so much like just opened up the everything to me like look, this is how this is done. This is what our job is this how you negotiate these things. And through, had me off and running right away and put trust in me right away like within a few weeks, I think two or three weeks of Starting at Upper Deck, and going through the contracts and learning how, what we want, what we don't want, what we pay what the budgets are all that stuff. Mike, one of my first deals with Lebron James and Dwyane Wade. And this is when Lebron James was at the still while on the heat. And he let me go to he just was like, okay, yeah, you, you handle that. And kind of just, I think he believed that I obviously he knew that I could do it. But being I was just nervous because I was like, wait a minute, like, You're not coming up, who's coming with me. And he was kind of like, well, you have the staff that helps kind of do the other stuff. But you got to do this. This is the contract. And this is what we're doing. And you can kind of see it all the way through. And that's how I got started with those years, that upper deck work, how I learned everything, oh, a lot of what I've learned now, not only about memorabilia, but how things are marketed, and how their what their images worth, which a lot of players don't know, and a lot of agents don't know, their image rights they don't really recognize. So
Darren Reinke: I love that. You didn't say no to the opportunity when you could have said, Hey, I know I need to have more support. And he threw you in the deep end and he knew you could swim. But you got to know yourself. And you said yes. When you could have easily said no.
Heiner Hilbert: Yeah, I was just like, and I was really nervous. I think I you don't have to hold it up. Yeah, I can, you know, do it. You have the belief in yourself. But I was still freaking out. I was freaking out that whole signing, when Lebron walks in one day, and I'm like, Oh, this is real, you know? D Wade walks in Lebron James walks in, and you just gotta, okay, you got to work. And it goes by and then afterwards, you're just like, holy, what just happened? What was that? You know, and but after that it kind of became I think that's why the deep deepest, and at the time Lebron is, I mean, he's still Lebron, but it was Lebron. So at that deep end, it was good to do that. Then I got the Jordan signings, and then once you get that, once you get to Jordan, as far as for me, that's the epitome. So I thought, if I can do this, and I can do anything. So once I did the Lebron D Wade and Jordan, then it was like, okay, I can handle this. He believes in me. And a lot of it was my boss believing in me, right? Like, oh, you can do it. You're fine. You got it, right. And I was like, Oh, if he believes I guess I'm fine, even though I'm freaking out inside. And yeah, so I was really lucky in that way to have the boss that I did to have the friend that had the landlord that worked at Upper Deck, a lot of things kind of conspired kind of like one of my favorite books, The Alchemist by Paulo. Coelho. It's like that. It's the whole story. It's a short read. But it's basically how you want something so so much, and you work at it. It's the opportunity waiting to meet the preparation. So you're preparing for it for a long time. And it may not happen for a long time. But when that opportunity comes, if it comes, you'll be ready to snatch it and kind of take off. And that's literally what happened with me.
Darren Reinke: Yeah, what's one definition of luck when opportunity meets preparation?
Heiner Hilbert: Exactly at the right time, right? Because that had happened before I wouldn't have been prepared. I wouldn't have known what the heck I was doing. What a mess that up. And then we're not here now. Right?
Darren Reinke: But take me back to that, that moment when D Wade and LeBron walk in the room and are just even before that, like, what did you do to prepare for that? I mean, all people talk about, you know, fake it till you make it just how do you overcome nerves? I mean, that's pretty incredible. I mean, you could start, you could have started with a no name athlete or a lesser name athlete, but you're going to at the time, the heat was the thing, right? So like, what did you do to prepare for that moment to get through and succeed in that moment,
How Heiner Prepared for Critical Moments with Key Sports Stars [13:30]
Heiner Hilbert: I went through all of the things like at that point that we had already done, the contract is already signed, so that part wasn't going to be hard. The contract he had done the contract. So we were just executing one of the first signings, one of the signings, so it was a lot of like, artwork, and that was number it was memorabilia signing. So it was like artwork, and some images, and like basketballs, the basics of oh, we had a huge box of game worn shoes, too, that we were doing. So how I prepared was I was like, okay, the important part about this, and one of the big things with upper deck was that we need to be able to prove that this is real, because I am signing saying, yeah, the player signs that he swears and attest that these shoes were from me, but I'm the witness that saying at the upper deck employee that gets to say, Yes, I not only watched him sign it, but we acquire this you have to keep a track of it. This was from this game. He had this many points, you know, they're authenticated by different ways to authenticate that this game was the game one shoe. So we had a lot going on, besides just the signing part was, how am I going to make sure that not only this is secure, it's authenticated properly, and it gets back to upper deck because it's hundreds of 1000s of dollars just floating around the room, right? I prepared that way. I just wanted to get in my mind. Over and over. It's kinda like when you study for a test, at least for me. Feeling prepared was a big thing and walking in there and not having to deal with the nerves of being unprepared. I just dealt with the nerves of, oh god, that's Lebron. And I want to make sure now that I'm doing the signings whoever was doing with before he was comfortable. Everything was Good, but they knew everything about him I don't. So I got to make sure that it's smooth. He doesn't feel like who is this guy, this is a mess. I don't want to deal with him, you know, for whatever reason, or I don't want to deal with this, I don't want to do this because of either the energy or things aren't right. You know, but he was awesome, really easy going. He obviously knew it was my first signing, it was like, it was great. He was just really nice and kind of funny and singing and really good. I actually did a big mess up with that one. I have a good story about that. So the first signing, you go in early is in the hotel room. So they were playing the Lakers. So I drove up to LA, we stay in the hotel, and then we reserved one of the conference rooms for the signing, so that the players can get up their regular routine, if they have a walkthrough or whatever. It doesn't really bother it, right. They go to their walkthrough, they have their team meeting. And then in the same hotel, they go down one level to the conference room for the signing. Right. So it's just easier. They have a game that night or the next day, and they just want to it makes it easy. They don't have to run around anywhere. It's all in the hotel. So we show up early to set up and we set up the long conference tables, you put jerseys or you put whatever he's supposed to autograph, everything in coordination so that he could just go through and do it makes it smooth for the athlete. So we go and we set it I'm like, Okay, guys, I'm ready. Let's do this. Let's get it set up. I'm probably thinking back, I was probably super high energy. I'm already high energy anyways, but I'm sure at that time it was more because I was like, and they were probably like, we've been doing this to calm down. But you know, they they were really cool. And I told them how to set it up. LeBron comes in, we set up things because he's right handed shooter, right handed everything. So I thought, right handed, that's what we're doing. So I set things up for right side signatures. While he signs with his left. That was my first freakout moment getting there. And he's like, moving them around, right? Moving things. And I was like, instead of it being smoothed, like he's always done it with the other guys that knew it was left hand side signature. I just didn't ask and no one told me I just completely oblivious to it, and set up the whole thing. And I said, Oh, and he must have seen like, I was like, Oh, I'm sorry. It's like, oh, no big deal. I know athletes that would have made that a big deal and then would have totally crumbled might not only my confidence, but I would have felt, you know, terrible and it would have changed the whole thing. But he was like, Oh, don't worry about it. I don't know, whatever.
Darren Reinke: So you're in the deep end. You're working with Lebron, Dwyane Wade, Michael Jordan, just iconic athletes across national NBA? Like, how did you go from that to launching your own sports marketing agency make that to me is a huge leap. Like, how do you go about doing that?
Why Heiner Left Working With Iconic Athletes to Start His Own Sports Marketing Agency [17:23]
Heiner Hilbert: Well, I basically started realizing there at Upper Deck that there were some things that I just when you're an employee, somewhere, you have to do what they tell you, right? And I started looking, you know, cuz I'm in those meetings now, because of the situation with them having to let go of everyone and then re hire. I've got the keys to normally when they were running functioning normal, they would have hired a football guy, let's say or I'd be the NBA one. You do the NBA contracts, you do the NBA signings, this guy does football, this guy does hockey, this guy does baseball, this guy does Marvel, because we had a marketing contract with Marvel too that didn't happen because of the housing crisis, which was terrible. But it changed my life because of them having to let everyone go. And I was one of the first hires, but they were still dealing with financial like, we don't know if this is going to come back. How is this going to affect things people aren't it affects the business. So they hired me. And then when Okay, let's wait and see if this thing picks up to hire more. So when I got hired, they said, Well, you're doing everything, like here's everything here, all the contacts here, all the contracts here, all we needed to do the football, and then we'd have the team meetings, okay, now talking, you have to add that to your plate, and you have to add baseball and basketball. And it helped because that was another throw in the deep end. But my boss was really cool about showing me the contracts were pretty much the same. There's some changes here or there, but not that much. But I got to see all of them. Then I got to see that side of the business, how much it's worth how much we make off of it. And I started realizing like, wait a minute, we are really swimming in money and the athletes are not making what they should offer that because this whole the whole kid CommBank is the actual athlete. How are they? How are we making 300% You know, off of their name, their image and their autograph. And they're, I mean, they're making good money, but they don't know that they're not making good money in comparison to and some weren't making good money was crappy when if you think about it, but in comparison to what we're making off of them, this is off to me, right? Kind of like the NFL is and some other things. It should be at least 5050 Like, how are we making, you know, a million off of this and we're paying him 10 grand, right? But that also was part of my job. I was doing negotiation and I was getting raided by my employer by how well I could do which was how low can you sign them for? Yeah, we could pay them 100,000 But if you can get them for 10,000 You are it right? So I'm trying to impress My boss. And so I'm doing that and then realizing like, I don't like that being a former athlete. Yeah, did you know I wasn't Pro, but I knew how much work it took, I was good enough to play college, you know, in college. So I knew how much work it took to just get to that. And to get to the level where you're a pro, and you've lived your whole life trying to get yourself to a certain level, and then somebody else is still making money more money off of you than you are, I just felt wrong about that from the second I realized what was happening. And so I said, Oh, I don't like this. And so that started me thinking, you need to learn all of this. And the goal will be eventually you will leave. And maybe you know, it's going to be small, maybe you got two or three guys, and you just deal with those guys. But you're going to Maxim be able to get him what there should be getting what it's worth, and not have guys go broke, you know, it really affected me to see that. It was at some point it was up to 7072 or 74% of NFL players were broke within three years of retirement. And I thought How is that possible? It makes sense when you don't have guaranteed contracts and things like that, because people see, oh, he's a football player, he got a contract for 10 million, he's not going to see that 10 million, especially if he's injured and especially so now once I realized, understood those contracts, and that end of it, and understood that the marketing, they're not making what they should like if he was making when you should, he could have had some marketing money to pay bills and or do dumb things with that wouldn't affect his NFL contract. So I started figuring out from both sides how, how it worked. And that was actually my mission and going off on my own originally was I'm going to go off, I'm going to learn everything possible, because I want to go off on my own because I don't want players and people of color predominantly because those were the ones that had the most it was from not knowing and not having the right team around them. Where you would see Steve Young didn't have a problem. Troy Aikman didn't have a problem. But you hear Allen Iverson has a has a problem. What happened internally? Why is that happening to Alan? And why is that happening to, you know, the black players. And it's like, I realized, Oh, it's just their team. And then not knowing like, this is how this works. Not having financial literacy, because they come from almost nothing, right? So it's a completely different upbringing, your parents didn't never had a bank account. So they're not gonna be able to teach you what a bank account is what a savings account is writing checks, balancing checkbooks, it's a completely different dynamic. So that's what basically got me to start going, I'm going to, because I go to houses and see, you know, players that had just declared for the draft in college and see how their family situation and how poor they are, and how their whole family's depending on them at 21 years old. Like if they were a father that had 10 kids, like, it's like, no, your cousins, your mom, your sisters that's on you. It's a huge burden. So I thought, You know what, I can see how they go broke. Besides that just not having literacy, I'm going to learn everything I can from this side of the business so that when I go to the other side, my dad would say, you've been to the puppet show, you were backstage and you saw the strings. So you know where how everything moves, that's what you want to do. Because once you jump to the other side, you can help them the most by knowing how the other side works. And that's how you can really maximize their earning potential. So it was just I just didn't feel right. So it started being that that feeling of like, I don't like that side of what I'm doing. And it kind of accelerated my learn all this, pay attention, write notes, because you're gonna save up because I had to live off of savings until I could figure out how to get it going. Save up and then go off on your own and see if you can do it. And that kind of was my shot in the dark.
Darren Reinke: Yeah, I mean, it's interesting is I think most people tend to think somewhere in your life and the work gets into it for the glitz, the glamour to be around a lot of athletes in the limelight. But I think it's neat that you went into it for with a sense of purpose to help these help these players help educate them. And what you talked about to me way transcends just marketing them getting them deals, you're talking about educating them, you're talking about helping their families just like that goes way beyond what I would even think in terms of being a marketing agent for athletes. So how do you go about building trust? Because obviously there especially if they don't have that financial literacy right out of the gate, obviously, you're teaching that to them over time. Like how do you go about building that trust,
How Heiner Uses Human Connection to Build Trust With New and Existing Clients [24:15]
Heiner Hilbert: I start early, all stuff that I learned upper deck, so I recruit them from when they're, you know, in college, most of my clients play NFL, although, because NFL is the biggest marketing generator marketing money generator in the United States. But NBA is worldwide second biggest only soccer. So I have some MBA, but NFL was a big focus. And that's how I kind of started at Upper Deck and I learned that side of it. So I thought, Okay, I'm going on my own, I'm living off of savings. I'm going to have to try and get some NFL players first because they're more likely to help me generate some income to get things moving. But I do all the three majors, the three major sports and yeah, I feel like when I recruit them usually before the draft so I go to the Senior Bowl. I'll go to They have Carson, they also have an LA, all star game that's like the Senior Bowl, it's newer, it's only like five or six years old. So it doesn't have the allure of the Senior Bowl because it SR has been around for like 75 years or some crazy thing like that 50 years, something like that. And it's a little Mobile, Alabama, and you get, so I ended up I make sure I go you know, it credentials and go to stuff at the Senior Bowl, go to the draft, once I do my college recruiting, where I watch games and kind of look at players at different schools, and I make my pick of two or three guys that I really think could be good. I don't have to worry as much about what round they get drafted, because that's more of the agent because the slotting and contracts are obviously the agent, he gets his commission off that, to me, it's more what market he goes to. And then if he can, if he's going to be able to make it and how well he might be able to do. So I start early, I get to get that trust, because I'm at their game, you know, and watch them and then usually the family, somebody in the family's in the stands. So you ask around, or you have contacts that have a, you know, for the family, right? I don't get as much scrutiny as the agent does from the schools and NCAA because I can't make it Well, now that has changed, but I couldn't make the money anyways till they made a pro. So I'm not a threat, I'm not trying to sneak benefits or doing something that could get them in trouble or violate NCAA laws, because Nike is not trying to do a deal with the kid in college at the anyways. So he has to make it to the pros. And by then he's allowed to make money. So I had less of that. So I go to games, oh, his mom has on somebody there. And you talk to them and say, Hey, I really think he'll be great. And this is probably a year or two before they're even to go get drafted. But I'm like, you know, he could declare as a junior, I think he could be great. And you just start the conversation, I'm here to help with this. And obviously I can relate. Most of them is going to be black families, obviously, because most of the NFL is African American. So they remind me of my mom, they have the same stuff like my mom. And they have, we have things that are in common. So it's a little bit easier for me to step into that and talk to them. It's kind of like speaking in their language, I understand because I understand what my mom's worries were, or what they would be for me to not be ripped off financially to all those things. And I'm like, it's a lot from not knowing also, and I'm like, I will show you what all of this is and how it would be done. And that would be my job to make sure that we do this correctly. So that when his career is over, or when he decides he doesn't want to play, he has some type of security and things are you know, and we get a fight. So I it's that explanation. So if the player has a mom, or whoever's he's close to then saying, Hey, I met this guy, this is this car, come meet him. He does marketing, he thinks you can go pro usually they have an idea. Sometimes they think I don't know, because you know, it's a year or two away. But it's like, Okay, start thinking if you're gonna declare, once you declare, we can start that conversation. But this is what it would be once you go pro. You want to have an agent for sure. You definitely have to have a financial advisor, and you want to have a marketing rep that's working other things for you. And that's what I where I would come in. And that's how it kind of starts. It's when they're young, especially the guys that every scout and every is an after them. They're like the unknown guy. Usually those are the guys that end up being big Anyways, if you notice the first round guys out of those 32 first round picks is very few that end up being Yeah, the Peyton Manning's and the John Elway's. But if you think of all the other players in that drug, those drafts how many of those guys ended up being stars, mostly third, fourth, fifth, sixth round guys, Tom Brady's sixth round, seventh round. So that gives me an up and then it gives me a leg up because I started earlier, usually. So then when if he does blow up, let's say he has a great junior year. And now he's really thinking, hey, my team won a national championship, I ended up being the starting quarterback or whatever I did great. Now I'm projected to be a for sure a second round pick or a third round pick. And now I'm getting calls from everybody. Now all the marketing reps want to come in, and all the agencies and all this stuff. Once I show back up, they're like, oh, yeah, you were the guy before that. And they can always call me and ask me questions. They're like, yeah, you weren't talking to me before all these other guys that said, now they want to come on board. So it helps me build a little bit more trusting the guys that show up at the door when things are all great, right.
Darren Reinke: And as I said, just great tips in life and in business when you getting in there early. You're also showing belief in someone like you believe in them you believe in their future, but also as offering to help you weren't necessarily saying hey, sign this contract, here's this deal. I'm going to make something out of this. You're actually providing education insight, you're acting as a resource and what a what a great way it's valuable tips in terms of life and business. Obviously, that's the lens that I see the world.
Heiner Hilbert: I have to say that I do have an advantage in that way. Because I have obviously a black mother and they have certain things that that's just what they do like this is I'm like, Oh, I know my mother did the same thing. And we have that in common. I obviously wasn't 21 year old college athlete. So I have that in common with them, we have usually music in common and the ways that we grow up, of course, a lot of them are a lot more poor that I'm like, I never had to think about that. But I can relate to them a little bit better than a 57 year old, you know, from somewhere else, right?
The Key Elements Heiner Uses to Build an Athlete’s Long Term Brand [30:40]
Darren Reinke: It just shows the power of human connection to your right doesn't always matter, the logo that's on your business card, or maybe you know where you went to school, or whatever it's like, if you can connect with someone in a very human way, it can help in sales, it can help in selling yourself. And in this great example, in terms of how you actually can land a great client for yourself for your company. Hey, now let's switch gears a little bit, I think, a lot of leaders, and I'm thinking about that a lot in terms of how they go about building their brand. So how do you work with athletes in terms of to build out their brand? Like, what are the different elements? And how do you go about doing that? Because obviously, you're thinking about things beyond just when they step off the field for the last time about financial security, but also endorsements and things like that, but how you think about brand from an athletes perspective.
Heiner Hilbert: Yeah, that brand, usually how I start, if an athlete already likes something, or likes a certain brand, or likes as a fan of, you know, scary movies, or as a fan of trading cars, or as a fan of sneakers, Nike particular Jordans, or whatever they like, I realized two things, it becomes less of a burden doesn't, it doesn't feel like a job when I have to tell him, Hey, you have to post about this, we have a photoshoot about this, it because it is work you have to you can't just sign the contract and take the money and not come through. So if they like the item, or if they have a passion for something all look, that's part of getting to know them as well. Oh, look for things in that lane, right. She's like, Oh, I want to design clothes, my own t shirt line, or whatever that is okay, then I'm going to start focusing on marketing opportunities in there, that also will help him help us learn and look into. Because if you're doing a deal with a company, they'll help you because you're part of their so you'll go hey, so how is it you can always talk to the product guy and go, hey, where do you guys get your T shirts made? And how does that work? And how does the supply and demand and the supply chain demand check? How does this work and you can get them information for their later idea of oh, we want to build our own T Shirt Company. So I definitely start with getting to know the player, what they like, what their passions are, because I feel like those things are easier to market when they get a deal with a company that they already feel good about. And like you like Beats by Dre. But Bose is going to pay you more money. Listen, I always tell them in advance. It's not always about the money because you don't like those anyway. So now you're going to have to remember that you have to hide your book, your Beats by Dre, you can't be seen anywhere with them. So you don't like those as much you work out with Beats by Dre. So why don't we just take less money and go with that than it is to have to think oh, I can't wear this Adidas. I love Adidas, but I signed with Nike. But I can't wear these and I can't do that, it's like, that's just going to be a burden. And it's going to be a problem. And you won't have let's just make it easy, you know, sometimes will take less, because I'll tell them, Hey, I know they're paying you more. But if you really care more about this brand, or this thing, and this is the one you're comfortable with you like this clip better or this shoe better go with that. Because we don't want a mistake where somebody flashes a picture of you when you're working out and you prefer these other shoes happen to James Harden. He had he had signed that big Adidas contract and the day after like 100 50 million 200 million some crazy amount. The day after he was just in his regular gear and was wearing Nike or somebody else's and got pictured it went viral. It went ever and it was just create this huge mess. And I'm like it's easier to not, let's go with what you like and what you and same with building their brand, right? You like T shirts, you want to build your own t shirt brand or you want to some guys are like I want to have like a like a Boys and Girls type club I grew up poor in my community, if we would have had something like that a lot of my friends wouldn't have gotten in trouble, they would have been able to take more of a positive path, things like that. So once you find that out, you can go towards that and part of building their brand is obviously getting their image everywhere getting them known getting them commercials, getting them marketing, which memorabilia is his way to market because that stuff goes everywhere. Right? And so that's my idea is once we know what we're targeting for the future what he wants to do, then I mark it in certain strategic ways to help that.
Darren Reinke: Yeah, it's all about authenticity. It's you right? I mean, especially in the days of, of social media and things that are less scripted or not scripted or you know less polished, talking about a brand you're passionate you're going to get away better marketing outcome as well. Hey, so hater. I know you're incredibly busy guy love to ask you one more question. Just one final question. So you've talked a lot about the positive things about brand building, but how do you work with athletes in terms of helping them manage their brain or navigate if they post something on social media or someone you gave the hardened example, but how do you actually advise them to get through some of those rough spots?
How Heiner Advises Clients Through Brand Mistakes [34:57]
Heiner Hilbert: Yes, well, I usually try to advise, it's always easier before they post something, especially at the beginning, as they're learning how it works. What words not to say what things not to do, because it's like, you don't mean it. But then like I said, perception is reality. So a lot of times, I prefer that they run it by me or PR person, or they have a team, the other team before we do it, because we can think it through a lot of times, no, they have the autonomy, they're young guys, they just post something. And then we have to do that's more like a damage control thing. Like, can you please take this down, and then we have to have a meeting of explain to him why this will seem like this. Right? You can have your opinion you can have but there's certain ways that you in this society because of social media and things, and everybody has an opinion is the way that you say it, is basically I have to teach young guys that there's a huge responsibility. You have the rosters and responsibility of an adult, off the field with your family, those guys that have to take care of huge families that are 21 years old, but also, with your words, with your social media. You're Not You can't make the mistakes that we did at 21. And 21 was like, oh, party, I don't know, you know, just the normal stuff. That can be catastrophic for your not only marketing, but earning potential that it can be over just found out one mistake. So I try to make sure that they understand that there are times where they'll post something, and, you know, I get I'll get flagged or it'll come you know, it'll come to me, and I'll go okay, hey, take that down. Call me. Or let's figure out how we're going to now respond to this. Right? And you let them be No, yeah, you say, I'm sorry, that's not what I meant. I meant this. And then maybe you repost it with the wording the way that you should have wrote it the first time, but it's just a much easier before it gets out there. To run it by us. It's a lot more of a headache to have to reel it back in. Some kids are easy with that. They're like, yes. Okay, other guys who like, and I'm do, I'm just gonna have fun. I don't care what anybody thinks. But as long as they understand that this could affect monetarily later on or monetarily at the time, then as long as you understand I told you it, you understand that? So if things start going right, at least you have the knowledge and you made your decision, your man, I can't, oh, you can't be on your Twitter. I can't tell him right. So I'm like, as long as you know, and I think knowledge is the biggest thing. I think the guys go broke, the guys that do go broke is because they don't know. And they're not thinking they're gonna go broke. They think that's more money than I've ever thought of in my life, because they grew up, you know. So it's like, it's about knowing, and I think that is mostly my job is just, I'm gonna let you know what this could turn into. What is probably going to turn into or what it could be, and then you decide it's more than just the Oh, it's my phone, no big deal. Twitter, Instagram. No, it's like, you have to think of it as a very delicate tool for doing good for your life or bad this could go either way.
Darren Reinke: It also just what you mentioned, just it's amazing. Just the the power of saying I'm sorry. And owning up to it. I mean, there's so many examples of people in sports, in particular, of just owning up to it and not dodging and ducking at people forgive for the most part, obvious, just things you do. And you're done.
Heiner Hilbert: But yeah, that's one thing in the in the United States, it can be a lot of stuff you can do, there's certain things that you're just certain amount of people aren't going to forgive you. But the majority, you can make a big mistake and apologize and move forward. Obviously, never do it again and act differently going forward. Eventually, especially if you're a really good athlete that helps you know if you're really good. People will let some stuff slide. But I think in general, anybody if you truly are apologetic, then you apologize for that. Now, the problem now is that people apologize. And they're just apologizing because they got in trouble. And they don't really understand it. And they really do feel that way. It's another slippery slope for me because I personally tell the guys know, if you don't feel sorry, don't apologize, because it's going to happen again. And then it's going to look like a whole other mess. So don't apologize for things that you don't understand. Don't be quick, just apologize because they're forcing you to you know, you don't be forced to apologize. You need to feel the apology and understand why you're apologizing and go Yeah, I shouldn't have done it that way. I know a lot of people that apologize and they go I don't feel like I did anything wrong, but it's like that's not really gonna work. You know, you got to understand if somebody is offended, whatever that is, you don't have to agree with it. But you understand it when you're making your apology. I think a lot of people get caught, say something insensitive or something. And then they're apologizing. 10 minutes later, 24 hours later, it's like you didn't learn from that in 24 hours. I would respect it more if you wait, learn the lesson. Really understand it and go okay, now I understand what I'm apologizing for. I'm apologizing for saying it like this. That's not what I meant. But I do believe this. That We can live with right?
Darren Reinke: Well, Heiner. I know you're a busy guy. I'm sure you're off and running for Friday in the weekend, but really appreciate your time and where can people go to find out more about you and what you're up to how to connect with you on social media?
Heiner Hilbert: Well, I have my my social media actually, I'm, I really only use it to connect with the athletes. But I now I'm having a social media person kind of manage that. And they'll be able to post on h2 sports marketing, which would be both on Instagram and Facebook as well. They'll post events that we're doing things with athletes that are happening, kind of where I'm running around, you know, for signings, or you know, things like that, because they're like, look, social media is important. Like I'm busy. I don't have time to sit there and post all the time, but it's very important. So I've got somebody that's basically going to handle that and make sure they put where I'm at what I'm doing, what athletes, I'm working with different charitable organizations, that we do a lot of charitable work, which is really big. So yeah, it's it at h2 sports marketing. Everything is pretty much the same h2 sports marketing. You can find Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook, Facebook and Instagram. Mostly Twitter's gonna get kind of ramped up here in the next few weeks.
Darren Reinke: Well, Heiner, thanks so much for taking your time to come on the show today. I really appreciate it.
Heiner Hilbert: Great. Thank you, you have a great day.
Darren Reinke: Thanks for listening to today's episode of The Savage Leader Podcast. My hope is you walk away with tactics that you can apply to become a better leader in your life and in your career. If you're looking for additional insight in tactics, be sure to check out my book titled The Savage Leader 13 Principles to Become a Better Leader From The Inside Out. Also, be sure to subscribe to the podcast and I would truly appreciate it if you would leave a review and also rate the podcast. Thanks and see you in the next episode.