Ep. 12: Documentary Film Maker Nora Poggi on Her Journey into Film Making
In this episode, Darren Reinke chats with Nora Poggi, director of the award-winning documentary SHE STARTED IT. Nora talks about her journey from journalism to film making, how her films are designed to inspire and empower female entrepreneurs to take action, and how leaders and parents can create equal opportunity for women in business, film, and life.
Nora Poggi is a French journalist and the director/producer of the award-winning documentary SHE STARTED IT. She was also a reporter in Silicon Valley for Examiner.com & Usine Nouvelle. She is a TEDx speaker and has been featured in Women In The World, Forbes, Fast Company, Glamour, Huffington Post and other outlets.
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SHOW NOTES
How Nora Got Into Journalism and Film Making [1:04]
How a Small Journalism Project Launched Nora into Filmmaking [3:20]
Nora’s Challenges with Creating Her First Film [4:54]
The Mentor Conversation That Changed Nora’s Career [6:20]
How Nora Embraced the Steep Learning Curve of Filmmaking [8:45]
How to Maintain Passion After the Initial Spark Fades [12:25]
The Unpredictability of Creating a Compelling Documentary [14:15]
Measuring the Impact of Nora’s Films [17:07]
The Unique Challenges Facing Female Entrepreneurs [19:08]
Nora’s Advice to Leaders Seeking Ways to Empower Women [21:34]
Nora’s Advice to Parents on Supporting Girls Early On [22:55]
Overcoming the Nagging Voice Inside Your Head [26:00]
How to Tell A More Captivating, Persuasive Story [29:54]
Nora’s Next Steps [32:33]
SHOW LINKS
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PODCAST TRANSCRIPT
Darren Reinke: Welcome to The Savage Leader Podcast, where I interview leaders from all walks of life so that you can walk away with tips to apply to your life and your career. But this isn't your traditional leadership podcast because I believe that leadership tips come from successful entrepreneurs and business executives, of course. Still, they also come from unexpected places, like Navy SEALs, successful professional athletes, sports coaches, musicians, entertainers, and more. So let's dive right into today's episode; my hope is you walk away with something tangible that you can apply immediately to your life in your career. Today's guest on the savage leader podcast is Nora Poggi. Nora is a French journalist, writer, award winning documentary filmmaker and impact producer. One of her films titled she started it is a film about the challenges and triumphs of female tech entrepreneurs. Nora, thanks for coming on.
Nora Poggi: Hi, thank you for having me.
How Nora Got Into Journalism and Film Making [1:04]
Darren Reinke: So Nora, just take us back a little bit. What was the spark? What inspired you by getting into journalism, and then ultimately, filmmaking?
Nora Poggi: Yeah, it was a journey that I didn't anticipate because I went to school for political science and communication. And I always dreamt of being a journalist. But documentary filmmaking was not something that was on my radar. And in France, where I'm from, you kind of have to follow the path of you know, you go to school for something, and that's what you do, you can't really, you know, improvise that much, or at least at the time, 10 years ago, that's what it felt like. But I always loved filmmaking so much, and I loved impact in journalism, I just didn't know it could become like a job, if you will. And it'll, you know, happen when I moved to San Francisco, and I started being a reporter, Freelancer reporting on Silicon Valley and tech entrepreneurship. And, you know, one day I had an idea, and it was just gonna be, you know, a journalism project, but a friend slash mentor convinced me to, you know, give me that little push off, you know, you want to make movies just do it. And I was interning at a production company at the time, so I was already kind of trying to get into that field. And yeah, it all came from there. It was, you know, a bit of following your intuition. Knowing that, you know, in San Francisco was like, Alright, I want to study, I want to go work at a production company, but at the same time, taking the leap to do your own thing.
Darren Reinke: Yeah, most people think about San Francisco and Silicon Valley and get into tech, but a little bit of a different path in terms of moving from France to San Francisco to get into journalism, and ultimately, filmmaking.
Nora Poggi: Well, I did move to San Francisco for tech at the time. That's a good point. Because yeah, you're like, why not just move to LA, I was actually, during my last two years of masters, I was, at the same time working at a Viadeo, which was a LinkedIn competitor, French LinkedIn competitor, that was a tech company who, you know, had an office in San Francisco. And that's how I got there. So when I moved to the west, I was, you know, working in the tech sector for the very beginning. And then, after that ended, I was like, Alright, I need to get into the media. That's what I want to do. And I found a visa there to, you know, work at a production company there. But you're right, I was looking at LA, and I was looking at all those things. But my network was in San Francisco, and you know, I needed a visa. So there it was, it would have been hard probably to move somewhere else. And I'm glad I didn't, because you know, it worked out.
How a Small Journalism Project Launched Nora into Filmmaking [3:20]
Darren Reinke: Absolutely. So tell me about that journalism project. That morphed into a filmmaking project.
Nora Poggi: So I was working as a reporter, and I was, you know, reporting on tech, entrepreneurship, interviewing entrepreneurs, and it was 2013. So we're talking way beyond, you know, pre me to pre all of those things that the topic of female entrepreneurship was not at all what it is today. And I would say a big inspiration came from the women 2.0 conference, which was February 14 2013. And it was at the time, kind of the only organization in San Francisco that was, you know, supporting women in tech. So it's just to say, like, such a different world, you had like one place, you know, where you'd go, like one big place and you know, a few things, but not like now where there's a bazillion groups and meetups and whatnot. So that conference was really a turning point for me, because I saw for the first time a lot of successful women entrepreneurs on stage, you know, sharing their stories, and it was incredibly inspiring. And it was the first time that was like, Oh, right. That's where they are. All I've seen is, you know, a bunch of guys, and we only hear about the Mark Zuckerberg and the Bill Gates of the world, but here they are. These women do exist. And we as storytellers and journalists have to report on their stories and share their stories. And it kind of came as a desire to empower other women and mostly younger girls to feel inspired the way I was at that time.
Darren Reinke: So take me along in terms of that journey of the process of creating that movie.
Nora’s Challenges with Creating Her First Film [4:54]
Nora Poggi: It was pretty intense and how can I live? I have often said that now is the best and the worst experience of my life in the sense of you know, we, me and Insiyah Saeed, she was my co-founder and co director, we both embarked on this journey together. She was also a journalist. It was our first film, and not only, you know, is it hard to do the first film, we really started something really ambitious. To this day, I think she started it is the only film to follow, you know, entrepreneurs over time, there's one film startup.com That I think was like 15 years ago that follows one guy, but we're the only ones who really, you know, have women that we fought for, like three years. And we did not anticipate that it would become a huge journey. We filmed over multiple continents, we followed five young women for three years, we also interviewed almost 70, experts, entrepreneurs, VCs, so it became a massive project. And our lives started resembling the ones on screen, you know, we really ended up becoming entrepreneurs ourselves, you know, we had to raise money, we had to hire a team, we had dozens of people we hired across multiple countries, all of that. So that's the short summary. But I'm happy to go back to the beginning, if you want.
The Mentor Conversation That Changed Nora’s Career [6:20]
Darren Reinke: Yeah, I'd love to hear just the initial Genesis in that conversation with your mentor, where you said, Hey, this journalism project, and I think you talked about just starting by thinking little, and she really encouraged you to think much bigger and to create this film project.
Nora Poggi: Yeah, that's a good point. I was 24 at the time. And I was at the end of my journey in the US because my visa was expiring after a year and a half of being an intern at this production company. And there was no way for me to renew this visa, I had to go back to France. And I was like, Alright, this is my last two months here. I couldn't get a company to sponsor me to stay. It was very difficult to get that kind of sponsorship if you're, you know, foreign person. And so I decided to do you know, one last passion project and it was like, Alright, I freelance on this newspaper thing. I'm just going to do a series of interviews, on women entrepreneurs, for this newspaper, and you know, do some video interviews and you know, just a series like that, like, a series of articles slash video interviews, and I'm there interviewing Hermione way was a friend and a mentor was a, you know, accomplished videographer and journalist. And she was like, Well, what is this project? I'm like, Oh, I'm just doing this, you know? And she's like, why don't you make a film? I was like, what she's like, just last week, two girls from Sweden, you know, interviewed me, they're making a doc, like, you know, it's called Startup kids. And she was like, why don't you do that? Or like, why don't you just make it some you will win by always being so passionate about filmmaking? I was like, There's no way I was like, what like, I've never made a film like, what? There's no way and just the way she made it sounds so obvious, so easy. So it was just the push that I needed to take the leap. It was just like, yeah, why not? Why not me? Why can I do it?
Darren Reinke: Yeah, it's interesting sometimes we just have these own thoughts in our heads that hold us back. And it takes that external voice from someone who respects me to buy or to push us. So for me, the genesis of writing my first book, and hopefully will not be my only book, was a mentor and friend of mine who said, Hey, Darren, sounds like you're gonna write a book, I'd been blogging and speaking, but this is like a whole different thing. And I thought, you know, maybe I'm older and have some time or write a book, but just that little nudge, like the nudge, you talked about just what it takes to get us over the line sometimes. So tell me a little bit more about some of the challenges that you faced, in just getting this process. You talked about raising money, but what were some of those early hurdles? And what challenges did you overcome?
How Nora Embraced the Steep Learning Curve of Filmmaking [8:45]
Nora Poggi: At the very beginning, it was just a steep learning curve to what it takes to make a documentary. So we even though Insiyah, and I both had a production background, because we were both working in that field a bit like I was interning at that company. And she also did work on some films. We had to just, you know, talk to advisors, talk to people to figure out how we even start, and quickly we settled on, let's shoot some kind of a trailer and do a crowdfunding campaign. And obviously now it's a lot more difficult. There's so much more competition, it's harder to do crowdfunding, but at the time it was the perfect thing because it allowed us to you know, put thoughts to paper I you know, I shot a bit of a trailer with friends helping me for free and just really describe okay, what is this project about? And a crowdfunding campaign is really what put us on the map. That's where I was like, Alright, I need to figure out a title came up with she started it and just that gave it a branding a name like an identity, and Insiyah and I quickly, you know, decided to work on this together and the crowdfunding campaign, got us some press articles and got us some, some money, but really the Hard times came after that the beginning was somewhat easy, because we were very passionate, very motivated. And it was still something that contained a project. Like it could have been alright, let's shoot the first summer. So we had decided, right, let's shoot first summer, let's do like a web series or even maybe a film, but you know, let's shoot for summer. And during that summer, when we started meeting some of the women who ended up being the main protagonist of the film, as the stories really started, you know, being fleshed out, and you're kind of, alright, this person could be a main protagonist, this person couldn't. You're like, Oh, damn, like, this is a bigger project, we're gonna need money. And the curve was really steep to learn about how we go about fundraising, we're going to hire people, we have to film, you know, some really important stuff. We need a really great team, and just scrambling to do all of that really quickly and learn really fast.
Darren Reinke: And how did you go about learning how to do that? It seems like a pretty daunting task is to think about all the different components of not just filming but producing but distributing a film, like, how do you go about learning those things?
Nora Poggi: We really asked for help a lot. Like I started, like I said, I was working in a production company. That was the first place that I went to my boss who, you know, lent us his production in certain insurance, for example, he lent us some equipment. So you start with your network, like local, like, who's around, you can help. And I went, you know, to a bunch of people that I asked for introductions of like, hey, you know, to my boss, do you know any filmmakers who could talk to me about how to go about this, and a few conversations with people who agreed to you know, grab a cup of coffee helped me a lot. And because they explained to me a bit the process, okay, here's how you go about this. And I will say, Insiyah, my co-founder, had a bit more experience on the producing side, so she was really good at it. Alright, we need to hire a really good DP, we're gonna film with someone who needs to be really good. And she handled that part of hiring a great team for that summer. And just asking for help a lot. We asked for a lot of conversations and just tried to learn as much as we could from the ecosystem around us.
Darren Reinke: Now, it's a great point, there are always so many resources that people really think about, in terms of people and organizations, I think it's a great point just to reach out and ask for help. But I wanted to get back to something you said, you talked about the beginning being easy. You're passionate, you're excited. And it sounds like so many startups or any kind of early project or initiative, how did you actually go beyond that when the spark maybe faded a little bit, you hit some of these bumps in the road? How did you persevere over time?
How to Maintain Passion After the Initial Spark Fades [12:25]
Nora Poggi: That's a good question. Because it quickly became like, like I said, and much more daunting, I think we were still very passionate about it, like the spark was there all throughout. And that's really what kept us going. We knew we had something like I said, it sounds a bit, maybe even arrogant to say that, but there was really nothing like it. We're talking 2013 There was nothing about this topic. So we had something she started. It was a name that was catchy. The people in them were really interesting. There was a lot of content, there was no content about women entrepreneurs, it was like we're sitting on something really good. And actually, we were proven right? Because a bunch of people would try to steal our ideas or a bunch of companies we talked to were like, oh, yeah, we'll help you raise money and then ended up doing their own corporate branded project after meeting with us and hearing everything we wanted to do. So that was also a steep learning curve of like, you can't trust everybody and people are not necessarily out there to help you. Some people, you know, will actually, you know, business is pretty cutthroat. I think what really kept us going was again, we knew we had something we really fell in love with. Also with the women's stories we're filming, they were so interesting. And Thuy Truong, you know, was from Vietnam, Stacey Ferreira. Those are two of the main characters, they were so interesting, their lives really started taking crazy turns. And as we built the relationships with them, and they started letting us into their lives and more and more, the film kind of sucked us in, of like, alright, we're in this now. Like, we need to follow their stories. And we need to know where this is going. The film kind of took a life of its own.
Darren Reinke: So storytelling is something you mentioned in something obviously to think about in terms of what makes a great movie and a documentary. So how did you go about creating that narrative in that storyline to create that really compelling story for viewers?
The Unpredictability of Creating a Compelling Documentary [14:15]
Nora Poggi: Well, documentary is a bit different from fiction, because a lot of it happens on the fly and can really plan as life unfolds. And also in the edit room. That's why you know, an editor on a documentary is pretty much like a co-director. They write the film as much as you do, because a lot of it happens as you sample hundreds and hundreds of hours of footage. And we had probably five different versions of the film in the edit room and you kind of have to decide then, but what you really start with are the characters. So a documentary, especially you're going to follow real people who have to be interesting, charismatic, who have to let you into their lives whose stories are going to carry a movie. And in that sense, I think we lucked out. But then the writing process is like, alright, let's figure out what's happening in their lives and what we need to know. So it's a bit of a reaction slash, you try to be reactive to what's going on in their lives, oh, I'm going pitching this day, oh, I'm going back to my parents, and they really don't support me. And also then being like, alright, what story do we want to tell? And we knew from the beginning the goal was to inspire others, to inspire younger girls, mostly, to get started in entrepreneurship, and to also show women who were heroes have their own lives and their own, you know, Heroes of their own stories. So we wanted to shine a light on their entire journey. So quickly, the film became a little bit less rosy. At the beginning I was like, oh, let's inspire young girls. But then as we dove in, you could see how difficult their paths were. And you're like, alright, we're not going to sugarcoat it, the film is really going to show how hard it is to be an entrepreneur. And sometimes we're a little bit worried that if the goal is to inspire younger girls, I hope it's not going to be a deterrent. But what really ended up being the success of the film is that it is very real. It is very gritty, it is life unfolding, people struggle, it's not easy to create a startup, it's not easy to do anything. And people resonated with that realness, I guess.
Darren Reinke: Yeah, the people from the outside just think that, oh, Instagram, it became a billion dollar or whatever it's sold to for Facebook overnight. But there's actually probably one that truly did happen faster than people realize. But so many others, it's sleepless nights and weekends and bootstrapping and maxing out credit cards and borrowing from friends and family, that the journey is not as rosy as it may seem from the outside.
Nora Poggi: Exactly. And so, you know, just having that through line. And the goal always being clear to us as what helped us build a story over time. But then it really, really evolved from, I would say, a bit of a naive project at the beginning to a pretty real storytelling in the end.
Measuring the Impact of Nora’s Films [17:07]
Darren Reinke: Yeah, it's such a wonderful motivating and inspiring story. So talk to me a little bit about impact. You mentioned that word a few different times. So impact in inspiration, you talk about inspiring young girls, what have you heard and seen from just from people who viewed the film?
Nora Poggi: Yeah, I mean, that was really the goal. And I'll say that's, that's also something when you were asking about what made us persevere, that it was always more than, like, we did not set out to make this film to like, go to Sundance become rich, which I mean, most people don't get into filmmaking for that reason, anyway. But um, the goal was educational from the start, which also made our distribution journey and our fundraising journey easier. Because there was a clear impact goal that helped us to raise money. And it helped us to distribute the film and have a clear vision throughout like, alright, this is what this needs to accomplish. And I think the best part for me was when we were, you know, at different types of schools, whether it was middle school, high school colleges, and seeing, you know, obviously, some students are a little bit taken aback by like, Oh, damn, this is tough. Like, I wonder if I can do this. But most students, especially honestly, students of color from, you know, marginalized communities really resonate with what they're going through and be like. This is giving me hope, to be resilient, to have grit to keep going and seeing them do it, is giving me a lot of courage and inspiration. And that's really what keeps you going. So that's why we made the film and we purposefully distributed a lot in the school system. And in the education market.
Darren Reinke: You talk about what I call purpose, and just having that as great, especially when you face some challenging obstacles that come up in the road is just having that sense of purpose. Having that Northstar and for you is about impact and inspiration. So I think that's great, just how it helped pull you guys through that process.
Nora Poggi: Yeah, and I mean, something else to know, for anyone who's a filmmaker out there, there is a specific type of funding and support for impact films, also, which we didn't know at the time, but they are specific institutions and entities that fund and support distribution for impact films.
The Unique Challenges Facing Female Entrepreneurs [19:08]
Darren Reinke: So talk to me a little bit about some of the subject matter of the film, talk about some of the challenges that female tech entrepreneurs face that are unique in their experience?
Nora Poggi: Yeah, well, I mean, things have changed at the same time, they haven't. You know, when we're making the film, some of the stats were like, do you know 96% of venture capitalists are men. And that was one of the big issues because we talked a lot at the beginning back in the day of like, oh, there are few women entrepreneurs, but they're actually now quite a few. Access to capital is really the biggest obstacle. And so when you know that 96% of VCs are men, and most of them, you know, have gone through the same networks, you know, they went to Stanford and whatnot. They're supporting each other and kind of have this that's what we say in the film. VC, John Wilson talks about that. They're like, Oh, they see this guy and this guy reminds me of me, this thing called Pat Pattern Recognition, you know, unconscious biases. And so what's changed since the film came out is that we have a lot more venture capitalist firms that are women led and led by people of color. And just diversifying, who's writing the checks is making a huge difference, because instead of having an uphill battle for entrepreneurs, diverse entrepreneurs who convince somebody, Hey, this is a cool idea, and that person having no clue or not really understanding either that the problem or the market or the person diversifying, who has access to the money is key. And I would say that's one thing that's changed since the film came out. But access to capital was the biggest issue. And another thing is that when we're making the film, you know, this was the leaning era, right? So the era of where the messaging was we have to change, we have to be more confident. Women have to pitch that way. And you can see it in the film that is Stacey and Thuy. For example, we're trying to you know, bro it up trying to act like guys and trying to have that toughness. And I think now we're in a very different era where we're talking about systemic issues. And it's not just about having confidence, we know how you know that there's a lot of entrepreneurs who don't lack any confidence, would they need the opportunity. So we're now talking more about the systemic barriers, like access to capital access to network access to, you know, support system, access to, you know, advisors, and all of that, and we're talking more about that rather than the confidence aspect.
Nora’s Advice to Leaders Seeking Ways to Empower Women [21:34]
Darren Reinke: Now, it's a great point, obviously, things have shifted very positively in that way. So what advice would you provide to leaders who are looking to help more females specifically in technology and entrepreneurship? Yeah, I
Nora Poggi: I think the most important thing is really to diversify their team. So for venture capitalists, and for you know, corporate leadership, diversify their team, because again, like, I really believe in bottom up, I'm someone who does a lot of grassroots, but at the same time, you know, you need leadership to be diverse, if you want decisions to be made, that are going to really be impactful. Also really have an accountability system. And some people I think, you know, are working on that, but processes that make you accountable. So that, you know, if you have a VC firm, what are you actually doing to proactively seek out diverse entrepreneurs, you know, for example, all raise, which is a women led VC firm that was started a couple years ago, pretty new and pretty powerful. They have, you know, some fellowships, they have office hours where women can come in and talk to them. And, you know, just like doing all those extra steps, so that you actually go and seek out people who may have different opportunities and different backgrounds who are not in your traditional networks, right. So having those processes in place.
Nora’s Advice to Parents on Supporting Girls Early On [22:55]
Darren Reinke: You also talked about, I think this in your TEDx talk, you talked about parents and what they can do to support young girls early on. So what advice would you give us parents out there who have daughters and how we can support them in their journey?
Nora Poggi: Yeah, absolutely. Do you have a daughter? By the way? I have two boys. Okay, well, that's actually even more important. Now, educating the boys is actually, you know, just as if not more important, like, you know, the future of gender equality. So, what I told parents at the time in that talk, and what I keep saying now is trying as much as possible to not pigeonhole kids, you know, with like this, the girl thing is a boy thing. And as we talked about in the film, those boxes start really early. And it's Debbie Sterling, who says in the film, from, you know, it starts as early as four years old, that kids start identifying careers with genders, and toys with genders. So you know, playing with different types of toys like introducing boys and girls, different types of toys of different types of stories of books or films, like opening up that horizon. And for girls, I would say, really trying to not push them to be perfect. And that's something that Reshma Saujani of Girls Who Code says a lot, you know, we teach our girls to be perfect, instead of being brave. And it's like, all right, encouraging them to take risks and fail and fall, but not having that pressure on them to be perfect. And for the boys. I think really teaching them empathy, and respect and having them be welcoming of other people. And other types of activities are now Oh, like a girl thing, a pink thing? Like no, just embracing all of that, you know?
Darren Reinke: Yeah, that's some great parenting tips. Someone as a parent of two boys is always looking for different things to raise better, more successful kids who have empathy for people out in the world.
Nora Poggi: That's amazing. Yeah, I mean, kudos to you. You have an important job.
Darren Reinke: Yeah, it feels overwhelming at times. That's for sure.
Nora Poggi: I bet I bet and I know I have friends who like a friend of mine. She has a young boy and she's like, he just loves trucks. She's like, I try. She's like, I tried everything. He's obsessed with trucks. And she was like, I'm trying to not be so sorry. Typical, but he just wants drugs. And I'm like, you know, it's, of course, like, we can't change everything, but we can just, you know, introduce our kids to an array of things to make sure they're, they're open minded.
Darren Reinke: Yeah, they it gets back to what you're talking about. It's just providing opportunities, you know, whether it's the kids and to experience new things, providing opportunities to, to female entrepreneurs and other folks is to enable some of that access, which will lead to greater success.
Nora Poggi: Absolutely. And there are now so many, like boot camps or summer camps for girls to like, learn how to code to robotics, like stuff that I didn't even know, that was a kid, I don't even think existed. So I'd say, you know, if you have your parent, like, send your kids to a robotics camp or something,
Darren Reinke: Yeah, no, it's good to expose kids to a whole array of tasks, who knows it's gonna happen in the future. I think that they forget the status. But the percent of jobs that kindergartners are going to have that don't exist today, which is just mind blowing, if you think about that knee, if you play that forward.
Overcoming the Nagging Voice Inside Your Head [26:00]
Nora Poggi: That's very true.
Darren Reinke: I'd love to get back to something you mentioned before, in terms of just talking about confidence, perhaps was on this conversation might have been one of the videos I've watched of you, you talked about that little voice that's in your head, that's telling you you're not good enough, you talk about that, and how that's the thinking of a little bit of a parallel journey in terms of your own life and becoming a filmmaker versus what some of the women in protagonist in your films have experienced? You talk about a little voice and how you overcome that voice?
Nora Poggi: Yeah, totally. You know, it's funny, because I spoke about that 2015, I was like, Oh, we all hear that little voice in our head that says you're not good enough. And it's really hard to overcome that. And no matter what I do, like no matter, you know, the film got successful, and I'm doing well, but I keep you know, I always hear it. And I know, it's, it's the case for most people, a lot of women especially. And I try really hard to, you know, not listen to that and to not give in to the imposter syndrome. But it's tough. You know, it's tough, because there's so many injunctions and society that keep telling you, especially I feel an America, there's such a pressure on, you know, success and competitiveness, that you constantly feel that you're not, you know, doing enough for, for your career. And it's hard, I'm not gonna lie, like I preach good advice. But taking it is is not easy. What helps me is just trying to, well, on the one hand, taking risks does help me, because it's like, when I feel like, Oh, damn, I can't do this, like the film, right? And just taking the leap helps me because you're like, Oh, I did it. All right, I didn't die, you know, it worked out. And just kind of overcoming those little fears little by little, and, you know, doing a podcast doing like you're doing, you know, writing a book, like taking the leap, I think builds confidence and self esteem, as you see yourself accomplishing things you didn't think you could do. But also, and that's the hardest part, talking gently to ourselves. I will say, since the film came out, I started therapy, which I didn't do in like, 30 years. And I know, it's, you know, generally our generation now is very into therapy. And I think that's great. Because that would have helped a lot if I started sooner, and just trying to talk more gently to ourselves, and having a bit more compassion for ourselves. And knowing that, you know, it's okay to not be the best at everything. And, and I feel like that's, again, a message we get a lot in this capitalistic world, it's very hard to think of our interesting value as human beings, the sort of try to remember, like, I'm not my job, like, I have value as a person, you know?
Darren Reinke: Absolutely. So much richness and what you just said, I mean, you talk about just taking risks. And I think about throwing myself off the cliff and just saying, yes, when every ounce of my body and mind says no, but it's taking those chances, obviously, to a certain extent, but you have to find that discomfort, because that's where growth happens. That's where more success happens. But I also love what we talked about, about being kind to yourself, being gentle to yourself, I think a lot about how people need to acknowledge themselves. And sometimes it's just acknowledging the fact that you're doing this, you're taking chances, you're doing something different. Whether you're a leader, you're a filmmaker, or a parent, because these things are hard. And you may not always get external validation, whether it's from the market or from people or from your kids. In the example of being a parent, it's important that we really acknowledge ourselves because it is hard and making changes is really challenging for people.
Nora Poggi: That's true as a parent, you must know that it's a very thankless job like you do so much and there's nobody to pat you on the back at the end of the day.
Darren Reinke: And that gets back to kind of purpose, I suppose. You know, a sire is raising well adjusted boys, and hopefully they'll go out and create opportunities and make the world a better place. There's my idealistic self coming through.
Nora Poggi: I love it.
Darren Reinke: So the last topic I'd love to go back to because storytelling is something that comes up and just being you're a filmmaker and also a journalist is, what advice would you give to leaders or people who are looking to tell a better story? stories that can be more impactful, more persuasive.
How to Tell A More Captivating, Persuasive Story [29:54]
Nora Poggi: Storytelling, I think America is very good at leveraging storytelling. And that's something that I learned coming here. Like we have great storytelling all around the world. But I think here, there's really a whole industry around using storytelling. And I think the best way to do it is to be as authentic as possible. And we see it now, especially with social media, we see that the most successful influencers or social media campaigns are really hitting a hardcore truth, like something people can resonate with, and they see themselves in it. So not trying to be perfect, not trying to pretend like everything's going great and you know, have the picture perfect, everything, just trying to be a bit more authentic. And that's something Brene Brown talks a lot about, and Oprah Winfrey, you know, was the first to talk about vulnerability and, and that scale. And we're in that era now of authenticity and vulnerability. At the same time, I feel like diverse stories are the way to go. And like, people have been talking about that for years. And now we're in the moment in time where there's a shift. And I see it in my industry, documentary storytelling. There's been a reckoning, there's a lot of talk about how we can really change who is telling, you know, think about who's selling the story? Why is it your storyteller? Is it not your story to tell? And having those conversations, thinking about these things and trying to really uplift people whose stories haven't been told before? It sounds cliche, because we've been talking about it so much. But it's still not really the case. Like, even if you look right now, the films that come out, like it's still a very small portion of films that are diverse, and so I think like, we still have a long way to go. And even now, when I see, I talked to so many filmmakers about projects and ideas, and a lot of people don't always have that thinking of Alright, like, the ethical questions of like, am I the right person tell the story, and how do I want to do it in a way in regard to documentary? How do I want to document this in a way that's ethical and dignified, and not exploitative? Right. So those questions, I think, are gonna be really important.
Darren Reinke: Yeah, I think also, it gets back to responding to your audience, if you have a diverse audience, making sure you're telling stories from diverse points of view as well.
Nora Poggi: Mm hmm. Absolutely. Yeah. And the audience response, because they see themselves in and they're like, well, like, look at the success of Marvel, like Black Panther. I think they've proven that this was good for business as well. It's not just something we talk about, you know, to be self righteous, like, they showed how important it was for people to see themselves.
Nora’s Next Steps [32:33]
Darren Reinke: So what's next for Nora? So you've had successful films, a great career as a journalist, what's on your Horizon.
Nora Poggi: I've been working for two years with a filmmaker who made a film very similar to how she started it. It's called a fine line. And it's basically similar, but for women, chefs and women in culinary. So she really exposed a lot of the issues in the culinary world and also highlighted women's chef's. The film had tremendous success. And for two years, she's been working on a nonprofit that we just started, called Map. And it's really to take the film impact even further. And that's rare to do for a film that she managed to finance that and build that, like an actual nonprofit two years after the film came out, which is all about creating leadership opportunities and advancement opportunities to women in the food system, you know, from women in wine, women, chefs, women, restaurant workers, women, restaurant owners, all of that. I learned from scratch. I didn't know much about this world, but it's still linked to you know, gender equality and, and all of that, so I I enjoy it a lot. And I do impact her. Like everything that I did distributing my film. I do that with her just building this nonprofit.
Darren Reinke: So where can people go to find more about you, your films, what you're up to all your writing and all that.
Nora Poggi: Norapoggi.com Nora Poggi on Twitter, Instagram, whatever. And she started it film.com And my podcasts creative distribution, which is all about distribution for filmmaking. Yeah. And hopefully there'll be another film when I have recuperated.
Darren Reinke: Yeah, fantastic. I'll be sure to put all those links in the show notes. But Nora, thanks so much for your time. Really appreciate your insight.
Nora Poggi: Thank you so much for having me.
Darren Reinke: Thanks for listening to today's episode of The Savage Leader Podcast. My hope is you walk away with tactics that you can apply to become a better leader in your life and in your career. If you're looking for additional insight in tactics, be sure to check out my book titled The Savage Leader 13 Principles to Become a Better Leader From The Inside Out. Also, be sure to subscribe to the podcast and I would truly appreciate it if you would leave a review and also rate the podcast. Thanks and see you in the next episode.